What's new

Pro Stock Chevy's (1 Viewer)

Dragracer

Nitro Member
Are the Chevy Pro Stock blocks purchased as a raw forging from GM and then finish machined by the engine builders or are the blocks made by other companies?
 

none

Nitro Member
Are the Chevy Pro Stock blocks purchased as a raw forging from GM and then finish machined by the engine builders or are the blocks made by other companies?

When I was involved a few years back Caterpillar was casting the blocks. As I understood it, for what was a "Short Run" it was more cost effective for GM to farm it out. The were cast with the GM logo and part number. And we could get them in raw form, or rough machined where the deck would be flat, head bolt holes drilled and tapped, bore was 4.500 and the bottom end was complete except for line hone so we could set the bearing clearance as we wanted.

When we started playing with the offset engines we would get them in raw form, as far as the top. The mains, and cam tunnel were done but the top was completely raw. With the rough machined blocks we couldn't get the cylinders where we wanted them. That was quite the education. It would be illegal today, but there was no rule back then. Good Times.....

I'll ask this weekend what they do now and let you know,
Alan
 

Dragracer

Nitro Member
When I was involved a few years back Caterpillar was casting the blocks. As I understood it, for what was a "Short Run" it was more cost effective for GM to farm it out. The were cast with the GM logo and part number. And we could get them in raw form, or rough machined where the deck would be flat, head bolt holes drilled and tapped, bore was 4.500 and the bottom end was complete except for line hone so we could set the bearing clearance as we wanted.

When we started playing with the offset engines we would get them in raw form, as far as the top. The mains, and cam tunnel were done but the top was completely raw. With the rough machined blocks we couldn't get the cylinders where we wanted them. That was quite the education. It would be illegal today, but there was no rule back then. Good Times.....

I'll ask this weekend what they do now and let you know,
Alan
Thanks Alan. Obviousy the Pro Stock engine builders have MUCH more work to build a engine than the fuel cars do which can buy finished parts from AJPE and others. Most people don't realize the hours of work, dyno time and $$''s go into a Pro Stock engine.
Any idea what a lease engine like Elite, KB, or others cost?
 

Ramjet

Nitro Member
Thanks Alan. Obviousy the Pro Stock engine builders have MUCH more work to build a engine than the fuel cars do which can buy finished parts from AJPE and others. Most people don't realize the hours of work, dyno time and $$''s go into a Pro Stock engine.
Any idea what a lease engine like Elite, KB, or others cost?
Yes - Anyone can buy a finished block and heads from AJPE, but that doesn't mean everyone does and lot of others are making blocks/heads as well. This is not just a situation where you order a boxcar load of parts and screw them together. There is also a lot of time involved for maintainance and unlike a Pro Stock engine that will make a quite a few runs there are a whole lot of parts that are basically "consumable" in a fuel engine. Piston heights in certain cylinders are used for tuning. Most people don't realize that teams have a huge inventory of Head gaskets that can range in increments of a few thousants also for tuning. Rocker arms - push rods - rollers - pistons - rods - crankshafts - valves - springs - bearings - sleeves and even camshafts sometimes only last for a very few runs. Blocks and heads have to be welded and remachined constantly or retired. Crankshafts usually can make about 7 runs or less and they ain't cheap. That doesn't even count the Fuel System and the Blower which is restripped every pass. Blower belts are good for 1 run and sometimes need a new one just for starting the motor in the pits. How about hoses that have to be certified with a tag on them. Unlike what some people say they are not very low tech pieces that depend only on Nitromethane to do what they do. There is normally at least one guy who is getting parts ready for the next pass and one building clutch packs who almost never see a race. Instead of the Dyno the Data Recorder and things like measuring the width if a bearing needs to be looked at and studied after every pass. Pro Stock engines are highly refined but that does not mean that Fuel engines are inferior and when it comes to overall dollars it is not even close.
 
Last edited:

Dragracer

Nitro Member
Yes - Anyone can buy a finished block and heads from AJPE, but that doesn't mean everyone does and lot of others are making blocks/heads as well. This is not just a situation where you order a boxcar load of parts and screw them together. There is also a lot of time involved for maintainance and unlike a Pro Stock engine that will make a quite a few runs there are a whole lot of parts that are basically "consumable" in a fuel engine. Piston heights in certain cylinders are used for tuning. Most people don't realize that teams have a huge inventory of Head gaskets that can range in increments of a few thousants also for tuning. Rocker arms - push rods - rollers - pistons - rods - crankshafts - valves - springs - bearings - sleeves and even camshafts sometimes only last for a very few runs. Blocks and heads have to be welded and remachined constantly or retired. Crankshafts usually can make about 7 runs or less and they ain't cheap. That doesn't even count the Fuel System and the Blower which is restripped every pass. Blower belts are good for 1 run and sometimes need a new one just for starting the motor in the pits. How about hoses that have to be certified with a tag on them. Unlike what some people say they are not very low tech pieces that depend only on Nitromethane to do what they do. There is normally at least one guy who is getting parts ready for the next pass and one building clutch packs who almost never see a race. Instead of the Dyno the Data Recorder and things like measuring the width if a bearing needs to be looked at and studied after every pass. Pro Stock engines are highly refined but that does not mean that Fuel engines are inferior and when it comes to overall dollars it is not even close.
Roger, I was not inferring fuel engines are inferior at all. I know the amount of time and work and money it takes to run one. I've been around drag racing since 1959 and either owned or worked on dragsters, J/F, Top Gas, T/F , for many years.
What I was trying to explain was their are many who don't give enough credit to Pro Stock because they don't see the behind the scenes work that goes on at the shop that isn't done at the races and many of the parts are made from unfinished castings vs fuel parts where anyone can buy the same parts that CAPCO, JFR or DSR use. Both are spec engines but for fuel motors those spec parts are readily available from several manufactures, in Pro Stock that's not the case. A winning pro stock engine costs well over $100k as does the car and the parts also have a very limited life span the same as fuel engines.
I would not try to compare one vs the other, they are totally different animals and are completely different in what it takes to make one go down the track.
 

Ramjet

Nitro Member
Roger, I was not inferring fuel engines are inferior at all. I know the amount of time and work and money it takes to run one. I've been around drag racing since 1959 and either owned or worked on dragsters, J/F, Top Gas, T/F , for many years.
What I was trying to explain was their are many who don't give enough credit to Pro Stock because they don't see the behind the scenes work that goes on at the shop that isn't done at the races and many of the parts are made from unfinished castings vs fuel parts where anyone can buy the same parts that CAPCO, JFR or DSR use. Both are spec engines but for fuel motors those spec parts are readily available from several manufactures, in Pro Stock that's not the case. A winning pro stock engine costs well over $100k as does the car and the parts also have a very limited life span the same as fuel engines.
I would not try to compare one vs the other, they are totally different animals and are completely different in what it takes to make one go down the track.
I totaly understand that. A guy from here has a Small Tire car that he has about $700,000 in. The Motor is worth about $300,000. To add to that he has a spare car with him and drives from Bakersfield to SGMP to race. AND - he flew it (1st car) at about 1200 feet last year and saved about enough stuff to fill a 50 gallon barrel. Not a deal for lightweights.
Looks like we ran the same classes.
 

Cliff

Nitro Member
Roger, to go off topic a bit, I have heard it said that if Top Gas existed today, no one would know how to run that combination - and that was why NHRA switched blown gas classes to alky. Is there some truth to that? Thanks.
 

mike

Nitro Member
Roger, to go off topic a bit, I have heard it said that if Top Gas existed today, no one would know how to run that combination - and that was why NHRA switched blown gas classes to alky. Is there some truth to that? Thanks.
I ran both .They are both very hard and tough on parts -the blowers are not forgiving - lots of waste to the non ferrous gods but it was our choice .
 

Cliff

Nitro Member
Thanks Mike. I used to love Top Gas. Lotsa close racing. I remember at Lions, that if I was close enough to the starting line, I could see kinda orange or red flames out of the headers as the engine was being revved. Not big flames, but i could see them. As the cars went down track couldn't see flames any more. There was a T/G at Lions that had a 3 speed automatic trans in it, & it ran pretty close to the clutch cars.
 

ol21stud

Nitro Member
Roger Gates posted: I totally understand that. A guy from here has a Small Tire car that he has about $700,000 in. The Motor is worth about $300,000. To add to that he has a spare car with him and drives from Bakersfield to SGMP to race. AND - he flew it (1st car) at about 1200 feet last year and saved about enough stuff to fill a 50 gallon barrel. Not a deal for lightweights.
...............................
Robert Holder's twin-turbocharged 1968 Chevrolet Nova is/was one bad small tire car! It ran a 3.80 1/8th mile pass right before his airborne pass. A 3.80 1/8th converts to a 5.81 1/4 (Yes, I know, it can't do the 5.81 because of many things.) Running it to the 1/4 would have many of the same problems Studezilla has running the 1/4. Makes me wonder how much would Mr. Holder have to change to run a Pro Stock record beating 6.30?
The Pro 275 class is serious racing.
 

Ramjet

Nitro Member
Roger, to go off topic a bit, I have heard it said that if Top Gas existed today, no one would know how to run that combination - and that was why NHRA switched blown gas classes to alky. Is there some truth to that? Thanks
Top Gas was really a result of NHRA's Nitro Ban. They thaught they could survive without Nitro and keep the cost down, AHRA and the Independents were running Nitro and racers wanted to run it. The Gas Cars kind of became the B team when NHRA finally caved to get back market share. In Southern California we could run 3 times a week and maybe 4 once in a while. I don't know about not knowing how to run blown gas but Mike Kosky is right - It was so competative you had to have a standing order at Arias or Venolia for pistons. If you got to a late round you almost had to hurt something to win. After the blowers started being stripped the maintaince was huge. Methanol cools the blower Gasoline does not. When the Lenco's came out you had to have one or you might as well stay home. Some people had three speeds. The year before everyone went to Back Motor cars a whole bunch of us cut off the front of the car and added space for another motor. They didn't really drop the gas cars right away they combined several classes
Roger Gates posted: I totally understand that. A guy from here has a Small Tire car that he has about $700,000 in. The Motor is worth about $300,000. To add to that he has a spare car with him and drives from Bakersfield to SGMP to race. AND - he flew it (1st car) at about 1200 feet last year and saved about enough stuff to fill a 50 gallon barrel. Not a deal for lightweights.
...............................
Robert Holder's twin-turbocharged 1968 Chevrolet Nova is/was one bad small tire car! It ran a 3.80 1/8th mile pass right before his airborne pass. A 3.80 1/8th converts to a 5.81 1/4 (Yes, I know, it can't do the 5.81 because of many things.) Running it to the 1/4 would have many of the same problems Studezilla has running the 1/4. Makes me wonder how much would Mr. Holder have to change to run a Pro Stock record beating 6.30?
The Pro 275 class is serious racing.
Right guy but it is Roger Holder (Great first name 😁). That’s OK I said 1200 feet and it wasn’t. Anyway the Plumbing & HVAC business “Beeen Berry Berry Good to him”. I don’t think he is interested in running 1/4 mile. Roger also has Pro Mod cars and think he only ran 1/8th mile. Also it is amazing how popular some of these non NHRA classes are. It is also mind boggling how it seems like these cars get down a track that a Jr. Dragster could spin the tires on on a 10.5” (Labeled) tire.
 

Cliff

Nitro Member
Thanks Roger. I remember AA/D in Pro Comp, which was basically the Top Gas cars (but no twins, like the Train). Jimmy Scott won a lot of races in Pro Comp with a blown gas car (Scott & Weiss) and I remember him going around 6.90 ET.

Cook & Bedwell always get the blame for the fuel ban. which was started by the SoCal tracks, & then NHRA picked it up. Cook ran 166 MPH in Feb 1957, with a 392 Chrysler and 6 carbs, on nitro, and that did it. But even with the nitro ban, you could still go to local tracks in SoCal, like San Fernando & Lions & San Gabe and watch AA/FD. I only went once to San Gabe, but that place really made an impression on me. AA/FD and weed sweeper headers......
 
Last edited:

Gone Dead Train

Nitro Member
Thanks Roger. I remember AA/D in Pro Comp, which was basically the Top Gas cars (but no twins, like the Train). Jimmy Scott won a lot of races in Pro Comp with a blown gas car (Scott & Weiss) and I remember him going around 6.90 ET.

Cook & Bedwell always get the blame for the fuel ban. which was started by the SoCal tracks, & then NHRA picked it up. Cook ran 166 MPH in Feb 1957, with a 392 Chrysler and 6 carbs, on nitro, and that did it. But even with the nitro ban, you could still go to local tracks in SoCal, like San Fernando & Lions & San Gabe and watch AA/FD. I only went once to San Gabe, but that place really made an impression on me. AA/FD and weed sweeper headers......

1631977174619.png

Saw the Weiss & Scott Top Gas car at Seattle in 1971. The race was like a PDA race
1631977369617.png

Pro Comp diggers of Weiss & Scott 1974. Jimmy Scott drove one, and
Don Irvin the other one. Saw Jimmy Scott at Seattle in this car at the
1975 NHRA Fall Nationals, or maybe Seattle in 1974 or maybe both
years. Hell I can't remember. But I did see the car run.
 

Dragracer

Nitro Member
I totaly understand that. A guy from here has a Small Tire car that he has about $700,000 in. The Motor is worth about $300,000. To add to that he has a spare car with him and drives from Bakersfield to SGMP to race. AND - he flew it (1st car) at about 1200 feet last year and saved about enough stuff to fill a 50 gallon barrel. Not a deal for lightweights.
Looks like we ran the same classes.
Rodger we ran Top Gas with Diamond Jim Annin when he made his leap from drag boats to land racing. Had the 1st 426 Elephant that KB built for gasoline. Broke some before KB figured it out. We ran it for about a year and Jim moved over to funny cars. Probably 1968 or 69, whatever year the 426 came out. I do remember you guys racing.
 

none

Nitro Member
Are the Chevy Pro Stock blocks purchased as a raw forging from GM and then finish machined by the engine builders or are the blocks made by other companies?


I asked Greg Anderson and he said they get them semi raw. The bottom end and cam tunnel are machined and the deck is flat, but no lifter bores, head bolt holes, lightening or anything else. They do all that in house.

As it used to be, you can have a third party do any of all of the other steps, or you can do it yourself. Some teams as I understand it, actually have them completely machined and ready to assemble form a outside shop.

Alan
 

Cliff

Nitro Member
Rodger we ran Top Gas with Diamond Jim Annin when he made his leap from drag boats to land racing. Had the 1st 426 Elephant that KB built for gasoline. Broke some before KB figured it out. We ran it for about a year and Jim moved over to funny cars. Probably 1968 or 69, whatever year the 426 came out. I do remember you guys racing.
Mike Snively drove Diamond Jim's car to the first NHRA 5 second run at Ontario 1972. Yes I was there. :)
 

Dragracer

Nitro Member
Mike Snively drove Diamond Jim's car to the first NHRA 5 second run at Ontario 1972. Yes I was there. :)
I knew Mike pretty well, a real nice guy and great driver. Annin went T/G racing before racing F/C's then to top fuel.
Unfortunatey Mike had some gremlins and took his own life. Very sad. RIP
 
Ways To Support Nitromater

Users who are viewing this thread


Top